Freeshard

[<ankh>]

So for you and Ankh both, just to make this clear from almost all but my first post. My position is only that of the long term. Ankh you in particular are of no means to take the high ground as you have left this game more times than I have had hot curries in the Sahara. Ankh I know you want to go to Warhammer just like 90% of the people here that I am guessing at least want to go there also. Warhammer so everyone is saying will kill this game. And as I have said I will stay here or flit between DDO/LOTRO until I tire of mmorpg's.

What? I've left the game once to take a break (that was 2.5 months) and then a second time forever. No offence Arcsalin, but get your facts right.
I didnt leave the game to "keep it alive" by playing freeshards either..I've never even thought about playing one of those so I've got the same right as anyone to speak my opinion about this the way I did.

Edit: I would totally understand the use of freeshards if the game had no servers anymore. But thats not the case is it? So your not exactly keeping it alive when you decide to bypass the payment to the creators of the game, your more or less digging its grave. (Well, technically the game lives on, but with no income from the game there will hardly be any new patches or expansions either.) So against the law or not, I still belive that this is totally wrong.

Edit2: btw - me wanting to play Warhammer Online has absolutely nothing to do with this subject either. I didnt leave DAoC for Warhammer...I left DAoC cos I have put down way too many hours of my life into the game and been in way too many bad RL situation from all time i've spent in the game.

/Ankh

[Satyn]

Edit: I would totally understand the use of freeshards if the game had no servers anymore. But thats not the case is it? So your not exactly keeping it alive when you decide to bypass the payment to the creators of the game, your more or less digging its grave. (Well, technically the game lives on, but with no income from the game there will hardly be any new patches or expansions either.) So against the law or not, I still belive that this is totally wrong.


/Ankh

couldnt have said it better.
Just imagine this: You create a game, some jackass comes in and steals the concept and turns it into a freeshard. I doubt you would like it.
Fact is its illegal.

One thing i truely dont understand is this. A few weeks ago a guy got banned from this forum for selling gold. The thread got locked and deleted. Now someone explain to me what the diffrence is with selling gold (illegal) and the advertisement of a freeshard server (illegal). And dont tell me that if it wasnt advertising, you dont need to be einstein to use google.

[Norcott]

One thing i truely dont understand is this. A few weeks ago a guy got banned from this forum for selling gold. The thread got locked and deleted. Now someone explain to me what the diffrence is with selling gold (illegal) and the advertisement of a freeshard server (illegal). And dont tell me that if it wasnt advertising, you dont need to be einstein to use google.

With all due respect.. isnt that part of your job as a Mod on the forum to lock/move sort of out issues of advertising illegal stuff... which freeshards breaks copyright rules as it goes, it also changes coding and uses Mythic/Goa patching rules and also by-passes the log in engine, they also change main content and the behaviour of the enviroment to suit what people want.. eg. xp gains 5x - 10x more juicy, super juicy new drops off mobs, old emain with new keeps, they change how many of one particular class can log in at one point... so how Arcs you can say to me that this is legal and keeps the game alive is beyond me tbh, its a completly different game by the time its been messed about it.. but its been messed about with illegally.. alot of freeshards web sites actually link you to mythic/goa main site to download the the free game form and any patches that they choose to use.. so dont tell me that its legal to use, Goa have a license and they pay alot of money for it.. freeshards are ripping off the game industry and spoiling the game for everybody else who pays to play it. (by taking the player base out of the arena).
(and no ive never played a freeshard and I never will,, why cus im a gamer)

My question to the powers....
Whats the point of having Mods.... ???

[<ankh>]

My question to the powers....
Whats the point of having Mods.... ???

Its more a discussion about right or wrong now so imo there is nothing wrong

/Ankh

[Xest]

Edit: I would totally understand the use of freeshards if the game had no servers anymore. But thats not the case is it? So your not exactly keeping it alive when you decide to bypass the payment to the creators of the game, your more or less digging its grave. (Well, technically the game lives on, but with no income from the game there will hardly be any new patches or expansions either.) So against the law or not, I still belive that this is totally wrong.

I don't know anyone playing freeshard that doesn't either a) Also have an active account or b) Can't afford an active account and I know a fair few people playing it, that's not to say there are people but this is the whole idea of competition, it pushes Mythic/GOA to up their game and produce a product that means people want to stay on the live servers, this is the exact reason reverse engineering for the purpose of producing a competing product is legal, because it's been proven on countless occasions to produce a better marketplace for the general public.

One thing i truely dont understand is this. A few weeks ago a guy got banned from this forum for selling gold. The thread got locked and deleted. Now someone explain to me what the diffrence is with selling gold (illegal) and the advertisement of a freeshard server (illegal). And dont tell me that if it wasnt advertising, you dont need to be einstein to use google.

The gold seller spammed in multiple forums so wasn't just advertising gold, he was outright spamming which is unacceptable. Also gold selling isn't illegal either just like freeshards aren't and again no matter how much you are Requiel keep telling yourselves that they are illegal doesn't mean it'll actually happen. Put it this way if someone had made a new account to spam the forum a whole bunch of times advertising a freeshard they too would have been banned and had their posts removed.

With all due respect.. isnt that part of your job as a Mod on the forum to lock/move sort of out issues of advertising illegal stuff...

Yes, but luckily this stuff isn't illegal so there's no problem there.

they also change main content and the behaviour of the enviroment to suit what people want.. eg. xp gains 5x - 10x more juicy, super juicy new drops off mobs, old emain with new keeps, they change how many of one particular class can log in at one point... so how Arcs you can say to me that this is legal

You just totally answered your own question, it's legal because it's NOT an exact copy off of DAoC, no IP has been stolen all game rules have been created from scratch.

freeshards are ripping off the game industry and spoiling the game for everybody else who pays to play it. (by taking the player base out of the arena).

Kindly post the empirical evidence you obviously have that proves this?

Doesnt seem any point in having Mods imo if the Admins are over ruling Mod decisions.. (some trust they got in Mods)

I could go into the reasons but for everyone involved's sake I'd rather this wasn't blown out of proportion.

[Norcott]

Xest your so full of shit.. talk about egotistical, U think u know everything about anything thats posted on this forum.. u take control of posts where u should keep away from as an Admin you suit your self what gets blocked and what doesnt, you over rule your own mods to suit..
You know as well as i do that freeshards is breaking the law of some discription but u are to far up ur own arse to admit it and be proven wrong...

ill continue to do my stuff as an e&e and report this kind of stuff as and when it rises its ugly head and if your happy to have all over a public board which you are Admin of then so be it.. I know for a fact that Goa gms dont bother coming here (which they used to frequently and post here) other people no longer come to the boards for the same reason..

I actually think that you dont do to bad as an Admin but i do think you need to keep some of your personal opinions to youself as your position is as such on the forum..
I also would like you to back up to me and others that have posted regarding the legality of freeshards, you seem quick to ask it to be backed up when people say it is illegal so im asking you right now to show me and others that it isnt illegal.

Perhaps should be in the comments forum but hey its gunna get deleted anyway so wot the hell lets get it out in the open..

[Bourkey]

Norcott, report the names that say theyve used it? Hell ive used it to. Apart from a forum account on an independent website, what evidence do they have. For all you know this is someone else writing this, you cant ban people for something on a forum unless you have real evidence.

[Xest]

Xest your so full of shit.. talk about egotistical, U think u know everything about anything thats posted on this forum..

That's it, let it all out.

u take control of posts where u should keep away from as an Admin you suit your self what gets blocked and what doesnt, you over rule your own mods to suit..

Actually, I'd say that as I'd moved the thread and that Satyn deleted it that she'd over-ruled me, however as she admitted in the private forum she hadn't read the full thread and so hence it was undeleted. Perhaps you shouldn't bitch about things you have no idea whatsoever about. Honestly, is it worth me even moving threads like this somewhere less visible in future if I'm going to get bitched at for it anyway? Someone more reasonable may feel that moving the thread further out of public sight would be a fair compromise however apparently not according to you.

You know as well as i do that freeshards is breaking the law of some discription but u are to far up ur own arse to admit it and be proven wrong...

No they're not, I've listed all the details in this thread you need to look into reverse engineering laws i.e. the precident set by the Sega vs. Accolade case. You can't prove someone wrong by claiming something with no evidence or justification whatsoever as much as you seem to think you can.

ill continue to do my stuff as an e&e and report this kind of stuff as and when it rises its ugly head and if your happy to have all over a public board which you are Admin of then so be it..

You do that, I'm not stopping you.

I know for a fact that Goa gms dont bother coming here (which they used to frequently and post here) other people no longer come to the boards for the same reason..

Oh well.

I actually think that you dont do to bad as an Admin but i do think you need to keep some of your personal opinions to youself as your position is as such on the forum..

So I'm not allowed to discuss things on a discussion forum? As I said I think I made the right choice in not outright deleting the thread because there clearly are some people who want to discuss it whilst at the same time others don't want it in blatant view of active players - moving it somewhere else is the most balance compromise possible, if I had some kind of personal agenda I'd merely have left it in the main forum.

I also would like you to back up to me and others that have posted regarding the legality of freeshards, you seem quick to ask it to be backed up when people say it is illegal so im asking you right now to show me and others that it isnt illegal.

Huh? I'm actively studying reverse engineering and the laws surrounding it right now so it's a subject that I just happen to know the current stance on, it's not about "backing someone up" it's about providing discussion and bringing forth the facts about the issue rather than spreading random bs to fit an agenda. In some respects I have backed up your side of the argument, I've accepted that it has the potential to pull other people away from the game should we get the point where people feel freeshards are better and I respect that, hence why I made the compromise to move the thread here in the first place rather than leave it in the main forum.

From the relevant part of EU law:

1. The authorization of the rightholder shall not be required where reproduction of the code and translation of its form within the meaning of Article 4 (a) and (b) are indispensable to obtain the information necessary to achieve the interoperability of an independantly created computer program with other programs, provided that the following conditions are met:

(a) these acts are performed by the licensee or by another person having a right to use a copy of a program, or on their behalf by a person authorized to to so]

Put simply it states that if you are a licensee of the program, which you are having bought it that you're legally allowed to reverse engineer without rightholder (Mythic/GOA) permission to get the information required to acheive interoperability of an independently developed program which is what the freeshard server is.

Honestly is this enough evidence for you or are you going to say the European courts are completely wrong also?

[Satyn]

nobody said they were gona get banned, but if GOA has evidence that they are breaking CoC then they can. And i'm sure they have ways to find that out.

<good to see you bourkey, miss you in guild >

[Blutark]

"No they're not, I've listed all the details in this thread you need to look into reverse engineering laws i.e. the precident set by the Sony vs. Accolade case. You can't prove someone wrong by claiming something with no evidence or justification whatsoever as much as you seem to think you can."......fyi in fact it is sega vs accolade ..and it was for an interim version of reverse engineering ..NOT for published and publicly used software